catholic answers forum how can we prove this guy wrong? working4christ

Thread Tools Search Thread Display #1 Oct 7, '13, 1:29 pm Retro Ace New Member Join Date: May 24, 2013 Posts: 40 Religion: Catholic Need of debunking here http://carm.org/roman-catholicism-mary-idolatry how can we prove this guy wrong? #2 Oct 7, '13, 2:02 pm YADA Forum Supporter Join Date: October 21, 2004 Posts: 3,311 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here Quote: Originally Posted by Retro Ace http://carm.org/roman-catholicism-mary-idolatry how can we prove this guy wrong? Why bother - even many protestants do not take this guy seriously ... Matt Slick and his website are totally focused on Catholic [and others] bashing - it is filled with mis-information and he cherry picks information from the Church to spin his version of 'truth' ... he does this purposefully - he is not interested in truth .. nothing you or anyone can do will change his mind .. the best we can do for him is to pray for him to come to know Jesus in the fullness of the Christian faith - and trust in God to do the rest __________________ Living the Journey, YADA Respect Christ - Vote Life #3 Oct 7, '13, 2:57 pm Church Militant Forum Elder Greeter Prayer Warrior Forum Supporter Book Club Member Join Date: November 10, 2004 Posts: 24,868 Religion: Catholic: Revert Re: Need of debunking here YADA is right. CARM is a waste of time and energy. If you're on there, you should be here instead, or doing your laundry...taking out the garbage...whatever. He's talking out his hat. The following sources will answer it for you, and all come from the Ask an Apologist forum. Immaculate Conception and Assumption Saint Worship? Is Prayer Synonymous With Worship? Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine Praying to the Saints The Intercession of the Saints Is Mary’s and the saints’ intercession unbiblical? __________________ Dominus meus et Deus meus Michael Apocalypsis (My blog) #4 Oct 7, '13, 3:01 pm YADA Forum Supporter Join Date: October 21, 2004 Posts: 3,311 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here Quote: Originally Posted by Church Militant YADA is right. CARM is a waste of time and energy. If you're on there, you should be here instead, or doing your laundry...taking out the garbage...whatever. He's talking out his hat. The following sources will answer it for you, and all come from the Ask an Apologist forum. Immaculate Conception and Assumption Saint Worship? Is Prayer Synonymous With Worship? Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine Praying to the Saints The Intercession of the Saints Is Mary’s and the saints’ intercession unbiblical? Thank you - love your post - I wish I had thought to research the topics and provide the links as you did PS - I think the guy is aptly named "SLICK' __________________ Living the Journey, YADA Respect Christ - Vote Life #5 Oct 7, '13, 3:02 pm PJM Veteran Member Join Date: August 31, 2008 Posts: 9,272 Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic Re: Need of debunking here Quote: =Retro Ace;11276743]http://carm.org/roman-catholicism-mary-idolatry how can we prove this guy wrong? Here are thee KEY WORDS Not "to" BUT "THROUGH" ALL PRAYERS ARE AIMED AT CHRIST, BUT WE OFTEN ADVANTAGE THE RELATIONSHIP OF MARY AND THE SAINTS ON OUR BEHALF. Is this necessary? NO! Beneficial? YES Because they ADD their own prayres on- top and in addition to our own. __________________ PJM http://working4christ2.wordpress.com Can we partake of God's GLORY and NOT partake of His PASSION? NO! A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." #6 Oct 7, '13, 3:07 pm Retro Ace New Member Join Date: May 24, 2013 Posts: 40 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here thank you gentlemen much appreciated #7 Oct 7, '13, 3:25 pm ServantPD New Member Book Club Member Join Date: August 9, 2013 Posts: 148 Religion: Catholic Revert Re: Need of debunking here Quote: Originally Posted by Retro Ace http://carm.org/roman-catholicism-mary-idolatry how can we prove this guy wrong? Haven't we concluded by now that these people prefer truth-twisting and bashing over actual search for truth and usage of reason? I mean, come on... __________________ I swam by myself to the other side of the Tiber and went through the path of the cold world with neither truth nor love. But God showed Himself and guided me back home to Rome. Thank you, Big Guy! "God had one son on earth without sin, but never one without suffering." - St. Augustine #8 Oct 7, '13, 4:55 pm tabycat Regular Member Join Date: May 21, 2012 Posts: 2,244 Religion: catholic Re: Need of debunking here Quote: Originally Posted by Church Militant YADA is right. CARM is a waste of time and energy. If you're on there, you should be here instead, or doing your laundry...taking out the garbage...whatever. He's talking out his hat. The following sources will answer it for you, and all come from the Ask an Apologist forum. Immaculate Conception and Assumption Saint Worship? Is Prayer Synonymous With Worship? Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine Praying to the Saints The Intercession of the Saints Is Mary’s and the saints’ intercession unbiblical? I would only one thing: Pray for them. That is one thing that would us all good. #9 Oct 7, '13, 5:29 pm dronald Junior Member Join Date: May 18, 2013 Posts: 608 Religion: Evangelical Re: Need of debunking here How can one make accusations and not quote the actual source? All it does is spread lies to others about what Catholics believe. #10 Oct 7, '13, 5:55 pm jochoa Regular Member Join Date: September 7, 2008 Posts: 810 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here Quote: Originally Posted by Retro Ace http://carm.org/roman-catholicism-mary-idolatry how can we prove this guy wrong? Though not in the spirit of proving him wrong, but to share a far more enjoyable and productive practice of spirituality: I really like the following youtube video --> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy...%3DkUdYeYy3NQA about Mary being the New Ark (starting around 5:30). I especially like the last line at 7:15, "Reverencing the old ark did not subtract from the worship of God, but irreverence was considered an insult to God." Hope this helps! __________________ My intentions for sharing these understandings is to grow myself and others closer to God - The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and Catholicism, AND to subject these reflections to harsh criticisms regarding alignment with Catholicism, for it is the Truth. #11 Oct 7, '13, 6:21 pm Slaney Regular Member Join Date: March 5, 2012 Posts: 679 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here Quote: Originally Posted by Retro Ace http://carm.org/roman-catholicism-mary-idolatry how can we prove this guy wrong? Haven't been on there for years, even forgot my username it's been so long, they gang up on ye, they did me..... Even on earth people greet each-other with a holy kiss, genuflect, curtsy before earthly kings & queens. The forget they are insulting the mother of Jesus who they say they follow... haven't read the whole post, but i'm sure they are familiar with dulia hyperdulia and latria ? If not remind them off it, not that any explanation suffices on there... __________________ " Abortion stops a beating heart " God have mercy on me a sinner ! #12 Oct 7, '13, 6:27 pm China123 New Member Join Date: July 24, 2013 Posts: 52 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here I have always had to defend my faith. Seems there is so much false understanding out there. I once had a discussion with a friend and he kept on and on about what the Catholics believe. I listened and then finally asked " Where did you get your info on the Catholic Church from?" To which he replied "On the internet, Duh!" I think satan is really busy dividing us. #13 Oct 7, '13, 10:51 pm QNDNNDQDCE Junior Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Posts: 370 Religion: Catholic Re: Need of debunking here Church Militant's links have all the information you need. A common trend among certain Protestants is an inability to apply common sense to biblical texts. The concept of "worship" is a broad one in the Bible, and it would be a mistake to assume that the word always has the same exact sense regardless of context. God commanded Israel to worship him alone, but there are other instances of worship (e.g. Moses worshiping Jethro in Ex. 18:7) which are not contrary to God's commandments because the word does not have the same sense all the time.

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called to be catholic no not al all

Today, 11:34 am WildCatholic WildCatholic is offline Junior Member Join Date: January 22, 2013 Posts: 443 Religion: Catholic Default Not everyone Called to be Catholic? I had a good friend who is a seminarian tell me this one time when I was talking about another friend of mine who was a very devout Catholic, but left the church for an E-Free Church or something like that. Anyway, he said "Not everyone's called to be catholic". Now I could understand if my female friend wasn't very well formed as a Catholic (and she might not have been. Just going to mass doesnt make one fully formed) but as I said she attended Mass and was pretty involved, but bam she decided to leave the church (or as she put it "Grow in faith" since she only calls herself Christian). To me that seems like rejecting the faith which sadly puts a soul in jeopardy. This disturbs me because my seminarian friend is otherwise very orthodox and logical and loves the faith, but saying this bugs me. You can't just leave the Catholic faith and expect the road to heaven to be easy. I know it sounds harsh, but i guess i'd just like an explenation on whether some people are not meant to be Catholic Reply With Quote #2 Old Today, 11:55 am Della Della is offline Forum Master Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 12,654 Religion: Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? He may have been trying to allay your fears for her, but still, it wasn't really the best comment to make, IHMO. God wants us to be one in faith not divided, and he wants to have the fullness of the truth and the sacraments and the graces they impart. So, your friend has cut herself off from the very things that could ensure her salvation. Definitely not a good thing. This doesn't mean, however, that she is doomed. She may have to "wander in the wilderness" for a time to appreciate what she left behind. I would not say it was God's will she leave the Church--that would be ridiculous, but I would say that her doing so may make her see what she is missing. Like the Father in the story of the prodigal son, he had to let him go in the hopes he would see how wrong he was and return. Perhaps that's what your seminarian friend meant to convey. __________________ The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast. -- Pope Benedict XVI Tiber Swim Team, Class of '87. Inklings! "Sanctum erit, facere bonum" Della's blog: http://dellakmg.blogspot.com/ Reply With Quote #3 Old Today, 12:29 pm jmjconder jmjconder is offline Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: December 1, 2007 Posts: 1,102 Religion: Born Latin Married a Byzantine Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by WildCatholic View Post I had a good friend who is a seminarian tell me this one time when I was talking about another friend of mine who was a very devout Catholic, but left the church for an E-Free Church or something like that. Anyway, he said "Not everyone's called to be catholic". Now I could understand if my female friend wasn't very well formed as a Catholic (and she might not have been. Just going to mass doesnt make one fully formed) but as I said she attended Mass and was pretty involved, but bam she decided to leave the church (or as she put it "Grow in faith" since she only calls herself Christian). To me that seems like rejecting the faith which sadly puts a soul in jeopardy. This disturbs me because my seminarian friend is otherwise very orthodox and logical and loves the faith, but saying this bugs me. You can't just leave the Catholic faith and expect the road to heaven to be easy. I know it sounds harsh, but i guess i'd just like an explenation on whether some people are not meant to be Catholic I would say that everyone is called to be Catholic...since it is the only way to have unity among all Christians. Seminarians are still being formed and taught - I have heard some inaccurate statements come out of their mouths. __________________ Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever! Reply With Quote #4 Old Today, 1:00 pm signit signit is offline Junior Member Join Date: October 26, 2006 Posts: 322 Religion: Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Sometimes I wonder about this one. Not "cradle Catholics" who left their faith, but those who never were Catholic. I'm thinking of a friend of my father who attended his Protestant church and was as righteous and God-fearing as anyone, and was a devout member of his church and never smoked or drank. Maybe God didn't "call" him to be Catholic? God sure could have used someone like that. Reply With Quote #5 Old Today, 1:26 pm Della Della is offline Forum Master Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 12,654 Religion: Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by signit View Post Sometimes I wonder about this one. Not "cradle Catholics" who left their faith, but those who never were Catholic. I'm thinking of a friend of my father who attended his Protestant church and was as righteous and God-fearing as anyone, and was a devout member of his church and never smoked or drank. Maybe God didn't "call" him to be Catholic? God sure could have used someone like that. Most often people stay in the ecclesial communion in which they were brought up. Your father's friend probably never gave his affiliation a second thought, nor ever asked God if he should be anything else. It probably never occurred to him that he needed to go anywhere else. By reason of his baptism he would have been in imperfect union with the Church, but he never received all the benefits of his baptism by being in a body outside of it. He was no doubt of use to God, as much as he could be. Indeed, he sounds like he did a better job of using the graces God gave him than many a Catholic who doesn't bother to take advantage of all they could have had and done. According to the Church God will judge non-Catholics by how they used the graces God gave them when they had no real opportunity--through ignorance and other barriers to becoming fully reconciled with Christ's Church. __________________ The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast. -- Pope Benedict XVI Tiber Swim Team, Class of '87. Inklings! "Sanctum erit, facere bonum" Della's blog: http://dellakmg.blogspot.com/ Reply With Quote #6 Old Today, 1:39 pm lizaanne's Avatar lizaanne lizaanne is offline Veteran Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Posts: 9,746 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? So let's break this down a bit... All human beings were created by God - right? = Yes God wants ALL souls to be in heaven - right? = Yes We live in a fallen world due to original sin - right? = Yes We have free will to choose right/wrong - right? = Yes So.... Because we live in a fallen world, there are those who will be led astray by false teaching, live in circumstances where they will never have the opportunity to learn about the Church, and those who will - of their own free will - chose not to be Catholic, even after they have been told about the Good News. But --- God wants all souls to be in heaven. It is our circumstance of a fallen world and free will that leads us away from Him. Every single human being is called to be Catholic, because that is where the fullness of truth, and the sure chance at heaven resides. There is no other response to your seminary friend but to say that he is quite wrong in stating otherwise. God wants EVERY soul, He calls EVERY soul to Him. WE are the ones who reject that call --- not the other way around. ~Liza Reply With Quote #7 Old Today, 1:59 pm billcu1's Avatar billcu1 billcu1 is offline Regular Member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Posts: 1,413 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? I would say that not all are called no. Jesus said in prayer in praying for us to the father. "For as many as you have choosen to give to me." God has other plans too. Reply With Quote #8 Old Today, 2:06 pm lizaanne's Avatar lizaanne lizaanne is offline Veteran Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Posts: 9,746 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by billcu1 View Post I would say that not all are called no. Jesus said in prayer in praying for us to the father. "For as many as you have choosen to give to me." God has other plans too. This makes zero sense. Are you telling me that God created souls that He does not want with Him in heaven? ~Liza Reply With Quote #9 Old Today, 2:12 pm billcu1's Avatar billcu1 billcu1 is offline Regular Member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Posts: 1,413 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by lizaanne View Post This makes zero sense. Are you telling me that God created souls that He does not want with Him in heaven? ~Liza No but but heaven is not eternal. Heaven and earth will pass away. We will all become united with the trinity eventually. What God wants for us more than anything is for us to be exactly like him. Reply With Quote #10 Old Today, 2:16 pm lizaanne's Avatar lizaanne lizaanne is offline Veteran Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Posts: 9,746 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by billcu1 View Post No but but heaven is not eternal. Heaven and earth will pass away. We will all become united with the trinity eventually. What God wants for us more than anything is for us to be exactly like him. We cannot be exactly like God, we cannot be mini-gods. There is only one triune God. So - when Heaven and Earth pass away, are you suggesting that those souls that have not gone to heaven (or purgatory) have the possibility of still making it to the New Heaven and the New Earth? ~Liza Reply With Quote #11 Old Today, 2:20 pm billcu1's Avatar billcu1 billcu1 is offline Regular Member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Posts: 1,413 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by lizaanne View Post We cannot be exactly like God, we cannot be mini-gods. There is only one triune God. So - when Heaven and Earth pass away, are you suggesting that those souls that have not gone to heaven (or purgatory) have the possibility of still making it to the New Heaven and the New Earth? ~Liza Read THeologia Germanica. The whole point of all this is for us to become the first mover and move of all else. There is only one essence and ours becomes it. Corin says when the imperfect is put off and the perfect is come or something like that. ------- St. Paul saith, “When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”6 Now mark what is “that which is perfect,” and “that which is in part.” “That which is perfect” is a Being, who hath comprehended and included all things in Himself and His own Substance, and without whom, and beside whom, there is no true Substance, and in whom all things have their Substance. For He is the Substance of all things, and is in Himself unchangeable and immoveable, and changeth and moveth all things else. But “that which is in part,” or the Imperfect, is that which hath its source in, or springeth from the Perfect; just as a brightness or a visible appearance floweth out from the sun or a candle, and appeareth to be somewhat, this or that. And it is called a creature; and of all these “things which are in part,” none is the Perfect. So also the Perfect is none of the things which are in part. The things which are in part can be apprehended, known, and expressed; but the Perfect cannot be apprehended, known, or expressed by any creature as creature. Therefore we do not give a name to the Perfect, for it is none of these. The creature as creature cannot know nor apprehend it, name nor conceive it. Reply With Quote #12 Old Today, 3:48 pm glombo glombo is offline Trial Membership Join Date: September 14, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: catholi Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by WildCatholic View Post I had a good friend who is a seminarian tell me this one time when I was talking about another friend of mine who was a very devout Catholic, but left the church for an E-Free Church or something like that. Anyway, he said "Not everyone's called to be catholic". Now I could understand if my female friend wasn't very well formed as a Catholic (and she might not have been. Just going to mass doesnt make one fully formed) but as I said she attended Mass and was pretty involved, but bam she decided to leave the church (or as she put it "Grow in faith" since she only calls herself Christian). To me that seems like rejecting the faith which sadly puts a soul in jeopardy. This disturbs me because my seminarian friend is otherwise very orthodox and logical and loves the faith, but saying this bugs me. You can't just leave the Catholic faith and expect the road to heaven to be easy. I know it sounds harsh, but i guess i'd just like an explenation on whether some people are not meant to be Catholic heool-- God the Holy Spirit -- had me go to a few places to receive the Full Baptism of the Holy Spirit -- so that i can function in all the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit-- if you do not know how to pray and hear the voice of God -- regarding his will, than you will only be guessing-- what his will is for other people

Not everyone Called to be Catholic?

Old Today, 11:34 am WildCatholic WildCatholic is offline Junior Member Join Date: January 22, 2013 Posts: 443 Religion: Catholic Default Not everyone Called to be Catholic? I had a good friend who is a seminarian tell me this one time when I was talking about another friend of mine who was a very devout Catholic, but left the church for an E-Free Church or something like that. Anyway, he said "Not everyone's called to be catholic". Now I could understand if my female friend wasn't very well formed as a Catholic (and she might not have been. Just going to mass doesnt make one fully formed) but as I said she attended Mass and was pretty involved, but bam she decided to leave the church (or as she put it "Grow in faith" since she only calls herself Christian). To me that seems like rejecting the faith which sadly puts a soul in jeopardy. This disturbs me because my seminarian friend is otherwise very orthodox and logical and loves the faith, but saying this bugs me. You can't just leave the Catholic faith and expect the road to heaven to be easy. I know it sounds harsh, but i guess i'd just like an explenation on whether some people are not meant to be Catholic Reply With Quote #2 Old Today, 11:55 am Della Della is offline Forum Master Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 12,654 Religion: Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? He may have been trying to allay your fears for her, but still, it wasn't really the best comment to make, IHMO. God wants us to be one in faith not divided, and he wants to have the fullness of the truth and the sacraments and the graces they impart. So, your friend has cut herself off from the very things that could ensure her salvation. Definitely not a good thing. This doesn't mean, however, that she is doomed. She may have to "wander in the wilderness" for a time to appreciate what she left behind. I would not say it was God's will she leave the Church--that would be ridiculous, but I would say that her doing so may make her see what she is missing. Like the Father in the story of the prodigal son, he had to let him go in the hopes he would see how wrong he was and return. Perhaps that's what your seminarian friend meant to convey. __________________ The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast. -- Pope Benedict XVI Tiber Swim Team, Class of '87. Inklings! "Sanctum erit, facere bonum" Della's blog: http://dellakmg.blogspot.com/ Reply With Quote #3 Old Today, 12:29 pm jmjconder jmjconder is offline Regular Member Prayer Warrior Join Date: December 1, 2007 Posts: 1,102 Religion: Born Latin Married a Byzantine Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by WildCatholic View Post I had a good friend who is a seminarian tell me this one time when I was talking about another friend of mine who was a very devout Catholic, but left the church for an E-Free Church or something like that. Anyway, he said "Not everyone's called to be catholic". Now I could understand if my female friend wasn't very well formed as a Catholic (and she might not have been. Just going to mass doesnt make one fully formed) but as I said she attended Mass and was pretty involved, but bam she decided to leave the church (or as she put it "Grow in faith" since she only calls herself Christian). To me that seems like rejecting the faith which sadly puts a soul in jeopardy. This disturbs me because my seminarian friend is otherwise very orthodox and logical and loves the faith, but saying this bugs me. You can't just leave the Catholic faith and expect the road to heaven to be easy. I know it sounds harsh, but i guess i'd just like an explenation on whether some people are not meant to be Catholic I would say that everyone is called to be Catholic...since it is the only way to have unity among all Christians. Seminarians are still being formed and taught - I have heard some inaccurate statements come out of their mouths. __________________ Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever! Reply With Quote #4 Old Today, 1:00 pm signit signit is offline Junior Member Join Date: October 26, 2006 Posts: 322 Religion: Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Sometimes I wonder about this one. Not "cradle Catholics" who left their faith, but those who never were Catholic. I'm thinking of a friend of my father who attended his Protestant church and was as righteous and God-fearing as anyone, and was a devout member of his church and never smoked or drank. Maybe God didn't "call" him to be Catholic? God sure could have used someone like that. Reply With Quote #5 Old Today, 1:26 pm Della Della is offline Forum Master Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 12,654 Religion: Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by signit View Post Sometimes I wonder about this one. Not "cradle Catholics" who left their faith, but those who never were Catholic. I'm thinking of a friend of my father who attended his Protestant church and was as righteous and God-fearing as anyone, and was a devout member of his church and never smoked or drank. Maybe God didn't "call" him to be Catholic? God sure could have used someone like that. Most often people stay in the ecclesial communion in which they were brought up. Your father's friend probably never gave his affiliation a second thought, nor ever asked God if he should be anything else. It probably never occurred to him that he needed to go anywhere else. By reason of his baptism he would have been in imperfect union with the Church, but he never received all the benefits of his baptism by being in a body outside of it. He was no doubt of use to God, as much as he could be. Indeed, he sounds like he did a better job of using the graces God gave him than many a Catholic who doesn't bother to take advantage of all they could have had and done. According to the Church God will judge non-Catholics by how they used the graces God gave them when they had no real opportunity--through ignorance and other barriers to becoming fully reconciled with Christ's Church. __________________ The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast. -- Pope Benedict XVI Tiber Swim Team, Class of '87. Inklings! "Sanctum erit, facere bonum" Della's blog: http://dellakmg.blogspot.com/ Reply With Quote #6 Old Today, 1:39 pm lizaanne's Avatar lizaanne lizaanne is offline Veteran Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Posts: 9,746 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? So let's break this down a bit... All human beings were created by God - right? = Yes God wants ALL souls to be in heaven - right? = Yes We live in a fallen world due to original sin - right? = Yes We have free will to choose right/wrong - right? = Yes So.... Because we live in a fallen world, there are those who will be led astray by false teaching, live in circumstances where they will never have the opportunity to learn about the Church, and those who will - of their own free will - chose not to be Catholic, even after they have been told about the Good News. But --- God wants all souls to be in heaven. It is our circumstance of a fallen world and free will that leads us away from Him. Every single human being is called to be Catholic, because that is where the fullness of truth, and the sure chance at heaven resides. There is no other response to your seminary friend but to say that he is quite wrong in stating otherwise. God wants EVERY soul, He calls EVERY soul to Him. WE are the ones who reject that call --- not the other way around. ~Liza Reply With Quote #7 Old Today, 1:59 pm billcu1's Avatar billcu1 billcu1 is online now Regular Member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Posts: 1,412 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? I would say that not all are called no. Jesus said in prayer in praying for us to the father. "For as many as you have choosen to give to me." God has other plans too. Reply With Quote #8 Old Today, 2:06 pm lizaanne's Avatar lizaanne lizaanne is offline Veteran Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Posts: 9,746 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by billcu1 View Post I would say that not all are called no. Jesus said in prayer in praying for us to the father. "For as many as you have choosen to give to me." God has other plans too. This makes zero sense. Are you telling me that God created souls that He does not want with Him in heaven? ~Liza Reply With Quote #9 Old Today, 2:12 pm billcu1's Avatar billcu1 billcu1 is online now Regular Member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Posts: 1,412 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by lizaanne View Post This makes zero sense. Are you telling me that God created souls that He does not want with Him in heaven? ~Liza No but but heaven is not eternal. Heaven and earth will pass away. We will all become united with the trinity eventually. What God wants for us more than anything is for us to be exactly like him. Reply With Quote #10 Old Today, 2:16 pm lizaanne's Avatar lizaanne lizaanne is offline Veteran Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Posts: 9,746 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by billcu1 View Post No but but heaven is not eternal. Heaven and earth will pass away. We will all become united with the trinity eventually. What God wants for us more than anything is for us to be exactly like him. We cannot be exactly like God, we cannot be mini-gods. There is only one triune God. So - when Heaven and Earth pass away, are you suggesting that those souls that have not gone to heaven (or purgatory) have the possibility of still making it to the New Heaven and the New Earth? ~Liza Reply With Quote #11 Old Today, 2:20 pm billcu1's Avatar billcu1 billcu1 is online now Regular Member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Posts: 1,412 Religion: Roman Catholic Default Re: Not everyone Called to be Catholic? Quote: Originally Posted by lizaanne View Post We cannot be exactly like God, we cannot be mini-gods. There is only one triune God. So - when Heaven and Earth pass away, are you suggesting that those souls that have not gone to heaven (or purgatory) have the possibility of still making it to the New Heaven and the New Earth? ~Liza Read THeologia Germanica. The whole point of all this is for us to become the first mover and move of all else. There is only one essence and ours becomes it. Corin says when the imperfect is put off and the perfect is come or something like that. ------- St. Paul saith, “When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”6 Now mark what is “that which is perfect,” and “that which is in part.” “That which is perfect” is a Being, who hath comprehended and included all things in Himself and His own Substance, and without whom, and beside whom, there is no true Substance, and in whom all things have their Substance. For He is the Substance of all things, and is in Himself unchangeable and immoveable, and changeth and moveth all things else. But “that which is in part,” or the Imperfect, is that which hath its source in, or springeth from the Perfect; just as a brightness or a visible appearance floweth out from the sun or a candle, and appeareth to be somewhat, this or that. And it is called a creature; and of all these “things which are in part,” none is the Perfect. So also the Perfect is none of the things which are in part. The things which are in part can be apprehended, known, and expressed; but the Perfect cannot be apprehended, known, or expressed by any creature as creature. Therefore we do not give a name to the Perfect, for it is none of these. The creature as creature cannot know nor apprehend it, name nor conceive it. Reply With Quote

Patrick j miron -religious deception- working4christ2 - goes out on a high note

ok sure

butbob;

10499059]

with all the different protestant churches it is difficult to find the ones where people and the pastor are actually filled and led by the Holy Spirit-

- that is the game changer-

- all thou the Assembly of God church has the doctrinal belief speaking in tongues is the 1st evidence of the Holy Spirit—

 even in the catholic churxch it is hard to find Q5 .

 If you are Born of God, [Baptized?]

ARE you a Child of God?

John 1:12; Rom. 8:16.

 John 1:12 “But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name”

 Once again we have a different version of “by Faith Alone.

” A very believable and powerful message when taken out of context.


They trend to the first teaching but at times ignore that it is clearly a “conditional offer.”

 Then even if they accept that its “conditional,” they claim an unwarranted right to define for themselves what the conditions are.

 Not permitting God to “be in charge”; and therefore they commonly miss the actual teaching God requires.


This is a great example of US needing to know what is true; and how to prove it.

 Rom. 8:16 “For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.”

Keep in mind the question being asked: cf.

“DO YOU have the Spirit of God living in you?” …

 I’d bet nearly 100%claim that they do?

 Response: But even if they do, how do they know for sure?


 My guess is that the answer has something to do with “Speaking in Tongues”

 which they commonly hold as the “end-all” of all Spiritual Gifts.


 So are they saying that “if one does not have the Gift of tongues”; the HS is NOT with them? Yes, I think that is often their point; and it’s wrong!

 That is NOT what Paul actually teaches: 1Cor.12 Verses 26 to 31

”If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.


 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various

 [LAST Listed] kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing?

 Do all speak with tongues? [NO is implied]

 Do all interpret?

 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

 And I will show you a still more excellent way.”


 AND 1st.Cor. 14: Verses 5, 13 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.

 He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues,

 unless some one interprets,

so that the church may be edified.


 Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.

” Speaking in tongues is a good thing; made far better when they or someone else can interpret it “for the benefit of the church.”

( the people)

 I know only a few catholics who are so Blessed.


 This stems from the fact that it is not a Gift we ask for from the HS, enough.


We certainly do NOT wish to claim that The Holy Spirit is NOT In some manner available to our Protestant brethren .

He may well be with them is some manner?

 BUT not in the fullness that He is within the Catholic Church and our Sacraments, and especially in it’s Informed and fully practicing members.

READ: Bob my friend

, IF your haning your beliefs on this one THING

 [speakingin tongues]

I would urge Caution.


THIS can be ALSO form Satan;   the deceiver

 GOOGLE “Satan and speaking in tongues”


READ Jn. 14: 16-17 [filled in John 20;21-22]


The Holy Spirit is Promised ONLY by Christ to His Apostles and the CC that through direct Succession

 [Mk. 16:14-17 & Mt. 28:18-20] with the MISSION now expanded to the Entire WORLD, which makes it an absolute necessity

. Further evidence is Found in John 17:15-19

Where Jesus gives HIMSELF personally [and exclusively

] to the same Apostles an todays CC.

Keep in mind that the ONLY Church for nearly ONE THOUSAND YEARS AFTER CHRIST RESSURESCTION was and is; todays CC.


 [And yes I can prove it biblically and historically].


Certainly our Perfect God


 did not wait for Protrestants to introduce His SINGULAR truth.



 God Bles you, pat/PJM

IF your haning your beliefs on this one THING [speakingin tongues] I would urge Caution. THIS can be ALSO form Satan; the deceiver

GOOGLE "Satan and speaking in tongues" Inbox x patrick moron May 16 to me Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from patrickjmoron@gmail.com butbob;10499059]with all the different protestant churches it is difficult to find the ones where people and the pastor are actually filled and led by the Holy Spirit-- that is the game changer-- all thou the Assembly of God church has the doctrinal belief speaking in tongues is the 1st evidence of the Holy Spirit-- even in the catholic churxch it is hard to find Q5 . If you are Born of God, [Baptized?] ARE you a Child of God? John 1:12; Rom. 8:16. John 1:12 “But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name” Once again we have a different version of “by Faith Alone.” A very believable and powerful message when taken out of context. They trend to the first teaching but at times ignore that it is clearly a “conditional offer.” Then even if they accept that its “conditional,” they claim an unwarranted right to define for themselves what the conditions are. Not permitting God to “be in charge”; and therefore they commonly miss the actual teaching God requires. This is a great example of US needing to know what is true; and how to prove it. Rom. 8:16 “For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.” Keep in mind the question being asked: cf. “DO YOU have the Spirit of God living in you?” … I’d bet nearly 100%claim that they do? Response: But even if they do, how do they know for sure? My guess is that the answer has something to do with “Speaking in Tongues” which they commonly hold as the “end-all” of all Spiritual Gifts. So are they saying that “if one does not have the Gift of tongues”; the HS is NOT with them? Yes, I think that is often their point; and it’s wrong! That is NOT what Paul actually teaches: 1Cor.12 Verses 26 to 31”If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various [LAST Listed] kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? [NO is implied] Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.” AND 1st.Cor. 14: Verses 5, 13 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.” Speaking in tongues is a good thing; made far better when they or someone else can interpret it “for the benefit of the church.”( the people) I know only a few catholics who are so Blessed. This stems from the fact that it is not a Gift we ask for from the HS, enough. We certainly do NOT wish to claim that The Holy Spirit is NOT In some manner available to our Protestant brethren . He may well be with them is some manner? BUT not in the fullness that He is within the Catholic Church and our Sacraments, and especially in it’s Informed and fully practicing members. READ: Bob my friend, IF your haning your beliefs on this one THING [speakingin tongues] I would urge Caution. THIS can be ALSO form Satan; the deceiver GOOGLE "Satan and speaking in tongues" READ Jn. 14: 16-17 [filled in John 20;21-22] The Holy Spirit is Promised ONLY by Christ to His Apostles and the CC that through direct Succession [Mk. 16:14-17 & Mt. 28:18-20] with the MISSION now expanded to the Entire WORLD, which makes it an absolute necessity. Further evidence is Found in John 17:15-19 Where Jesus gives HIMSELF personally [and exclusively] to the same Apostles an todays CC. Keep in mind that the ONLY Church for nearly ONE THOUSAND YEARS AFTER CHRIST RESSURESCTION was and is; todays CC. [And yes I can prove it biblically and historically]. Certainly our Perfect God did not wait for Protrestants to introduce His SINGULAR truth. God Bles you, pat/PJM

GOOGLE "Satan and speaking in tongues" Inbox---patrick moron

GOOGLE "Satan and speaking in tongues" Inbox x patrick moron May 16 to me Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from patrickjmoron@gmail.com butbob;10499059]with all the different protestant churches it is difficult to find the ones where people and the pastor are actually filled and led by the Holy Spirit-- that is the game changer-- all thou the Assembly of God church has the doctrinal belief speaking in tongues is the 1st evidence of the Holy Spirit-- even in the catholic churxch it is hard to find Q5 . If you are Born of God, [Baptized?] ARE you a Child of God? John 1:12; Rom. 8:16. John 1:12 “But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name” Once again we have a different version of “by Faith Alone.” A very believable and powerful message when taken out of context. They trend to the first teaching but at times ignore that it is clearly a “conditional offer.” Then even if they accept that its “conditional,” they claim an unwarranted right to define for themselves what the conditions are. Not permitting God to “be in charge”; and therefore they commonly miss the actual teaching God requires. This is a great example of US needing to know what is true; and how to prove it. Rom. 8:16 “For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.” Keep in mind the question being asked: cf. “DO YOU have the Spirit of God living in you?” … I’d bet nearly 100%claim that they do? Response: But even if they do, how do they know for sure? My guess is that the answer has something to do with “Speaking in Tongues” which they commonly hold as the “end-all” of all Spiritual Gifts. So are they saying that “if one does not have the Gift of tongues”; the HS is NOT with them? Yes, I think that is often their point; and it’s wrong! That is NOT what Paul actually teaches: 1Cor.12 Verses 26 to 31”If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various [LAST Listed] kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? [NO is implied] Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.” AND 1st.Cor. 14: Verses 5, 13 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.” Speaking in tongues is a good thing; made far better when they or someone else can interpret it “for the benefit of the church.”( the people) I know only a few catholics who are so Blessed. This stems from the fact that it is not a Gift we ask for from the HS, enough. We certainly do NOT wish to claim that The Holy Spirit is NOT In some manner available to our Protestant brethren . He may well be with them is some manner? BUT not in the fullness that He is within the Catholic Church and our Sacraments, and especially in it’s Informed and fully practicing members. READ: Bob my friend, IF your haning your beliefs on this one THING [speakingin tongues] I would urge Caution. THIS can be ALSO form Satan; the deceiver GOOGLE "Satan and speaking in tongues" READ Jn. 14: 16-17 [filled in John 20;21-22] The Holy Spirit is Promised ONLY by Christ to His Apostles and the CC that through direct Succession [Mk. 16:14-17 & Mt. 28:18-20] with the MISSION now expanded to the Entire WORLD, which makes it an absolute necessity. Further evidence is Found in John 17:15-19 Where Jesus gives HIMSELF personally [and exclusively] to the same Apostles an todays CC. Keep in mind that the ONLY Church for nearly ONE THOUSAND YEARS AFTER CHRIST RESSURESCTION was and is; todays CC. [And yes I can prove it biblically and historically]. Certainly our Perfect God did not wait for Protrestants to introduce His SINGULAR truth. God Bles you, pat/PJM

Blood Moons Mark Blitz part 1

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy,

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, 1I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is. Spiritual Fullness in Christ 6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forcesa of this world rather than on Christ. 9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the fleshb was put off when you were circumcised byc Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 1 3When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made youd alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.e Freedom From Human Rules 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 2 2These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

working4christ2 "Yo Mama" Jokes-- catholic answers 4 a TROLL

Babylon Rising 11/13

Official Ron White - You Can't Fix Stupid

Jim Staley Passion Points - What else is on your track?--Ask a Pentecostal

3, 5:15 am

guanophore Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Radio Club Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Southwestern United States Posts: 25,826 Religion: Obl. OSB

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by benjohnson Yes! Confessional Lutherans certainly do - the word 'fatima' is enough to get us foaming at the mouth. I am still confused, ben. Fatima is considered private, not public revelation, which,as grannyh has stated, is considered to be closed with the death of the last apostle. I understand that Lutherans have retained the Aposotlic teaching on public revelation, but it sounds like you are saying that you reject private revelation. Quote: Originally Posted by grannymh I cannot speak for Lutherans. Private revelation is totally separate from public revelation. Private revelation exists in the writings of some of the Saints and in some of the Holy Spirit's many, many gifts. The purpose of private revelation is to help us live better lives according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. As individual events, private revelation could include a reference to an existing doctrine. For example, many saints urge us to participate at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as often as possible. This is a reference to the doctrine of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. The reason I ask is because it seems impossible to accept the charismatic gifts, as many of are dependent upon, and expressive of, private revelation. If one rejects the principle of private revelation, then one would have to also reject the pentecostal experience. __________________ "The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).

#347     May 20, '13, 10:14 am

peace2u2 Regular Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: February 25, 2011 Posts: 918 Religion: Catholic

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by benjohnson Itwin, ...but if you were in front of my children, I would tell them that they should look up to you and your faith. But not that they should follow you God bless you! Itwin, it would be a blessing to have you before me and my children and you too Grannymh; Your all "on fire" with the Holy Spirit, and, if you were before us, I would ask if you would pray over us in tongues. I'm sure it would be a moment that we would never forget and you'd probably by the grace of God, ignite a brush fire!

#348     May 20, '13, 2:01 pm

grannymh Forum Master Forum Supporter   Join Date: November 16, 2008 Location: USA Posts: 12,947 Religion: Catholic

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by guanophore I am still confused, ben. Fatima is considered private, not public revelation, which,as grannyh has stated, is considered to be closed with the death of the last apostle. Please note that I have not posted that public revelation is considered to be closed with the death of the last Apostle. Please note that the cited paragraphs in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition did not say that public revelation is considered to be closed with the death of the last Apostle. Links. http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....&postcount=336 http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....&postcount=338

#349     May 20, '13, 7:56 pm

guanophore Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Radio Club Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Southwestern United States Posts: 25,826 Religion: Obl. OSB

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by grannymh Please note that I have not posted that public revelation is considered to be closed with the death of the last Apostle. Please note that the cited paragraphs in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition did not say that public revelation is considered to be closed with the death of the last Apostle. Links. http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....&postcount=336 http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....&postcount=338 Sorry, poorly worded. Grannyh has said that public revelation is closed. The Pentecostal gifts are considered private revelation. Do Lutherans reject private revelation? __________________ "The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).

#350     Yesterday, 2:08 am

Izdaari Regular Member   Join Date: November 1, 2009 Location: Pacific NW, USA Posts: 1,022 Religion: Episcopalutheran (TEC & ELCA)

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by KendraDZ1902 What's the deal with pentecostal women not being allowed to wear makeup or pants? My Pentecostal experience is with Open Bible and later Assemblies of God. Neither puts any restriction on women regarding makeup or pants.

#351     Yesterday, 11:29 pm

lance4648 Observing Member   Join Date: May 20, 2012 Posts: 4

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Wow, I have just finished reading all 24 pages of posts and comments and I must say that I'm impressed with how cordial and knowledgeable the posts have been. I was born and raised in the Assemblies of God and I have recently started reading Catholic Answers to learn more about the Catholic church. The more I read the more I realize that we have so much in common and I'm glad to call all of you my Christian brothers and sisters. I have to admit that before I got on this forum I had many misconceptions about Catholics and for that I'm truly sorry. I hope to have an opportunity to chat with many of you guys and learn much more about the faith from your own personal experiences. All the best, Lance

#352     Yesterday, 11:50 pm

benjohnson Regular Member   Join Date: May 16, 2012 Location: Seattle (Where we need the Gospel) Posts: 1,381 Religion: Lutheran - LC-MS

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by guanophore . Do Lutherans reject private revelation? We definatly share the good news of God's grace from person to person. But we wouldn't make shrines, nor would the church expound on any private revelation. Don't get me wrong.. We love that others make shrines and even take joy in them. But for example, Dietrich Bonhoeffer got a plaque, rather lousy sculputre, and a small museum. We're a little frozen in this regarde.

#353     Yesterday, 11:57 pm

Porknpie Regular Member   Join Date: April 11, 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,671 Religion: Catholic n Catholic (pie is a convert)

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by benjohnson We definatly share the good news of God's grace from person to person. But we wouldn't make shrines, nor would the church expound on any private revelation. Don't get me wrong.. We love that others make shrines and even take joy in them. But for example, Dietrich Bonhoeffer got a plaque, rather lousy sculputre, and a small museum. We're a little frozen in this regarde. Ben, so the answer is no? __________________ Recommend: Being Logical by D.Q. McInerny Read the Catechism in a Year Study Guide My Favorite Jesuit (May 9th Homily)

#354     Today, 6:26 am

guanophore Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Radio Club Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Southwestern United States Posts: 25,826 Religion: Obl. OSB

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by lance4648 Wow, I have just finished reading all 24 pages of posts and comments and I must say that I'm impressed with how cordial and knowledgeable the posts have been. I was born and raised in the Assemblies of God and I have recently started reading Catholic Answers to learn more about the Catholic church. The more I read the more I realize that we have so much in common and I'm glad to call all of you my Christian brothers and sisters. I have to admit that before I got on this forum I had many misconceptions about Catholics and for that I'm truly sorry. I hope to have an opportunity to chat with many of you guys and learn much more about the faith from your own personal experiences. All the best, Lance Welcome to CAF Lance. I hope with you! I attended an A of G for about a year when I was in college. It was a very different experience for me, having been raised Catholic and accustomed to only Latin Liturgy. I also find that Pentecostals are actually more Catholic than many Protestant groups. __________________ "The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).

#355     Today, 6:31 am

guanophore Forum Elder Prayer Warrior Radio Club Member Forum Supporter   Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Southwestern United States Posts: 25,826 Religion: Obl. OSB

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by benjohnson We definatly share the good news of God's grace from person to person. But we wouldn't make shrines, nor would the church expound on any private revelation. Don't get me wrong.. We love that others make shrines and even take joy in them. But for example, Dietrich Bonhoeffer got a plaque, rather lousy sculputre, and a small museum. We're a little frozen in this regarde. Did I understand that Lutherans are cessationinsts when it comes to the charismatic gifts? I just finished a study on the life and work of Dietrich Bonhoeffer with great joy. What a gutsy guy! I hope I am never called to make such choices, but if I am, that I will make them with the same courage. Does Lutheran theology allow that God can give an individual a powerful revelation that is meant to be shared with the Church? Do you consider that such figures as Luther and Melanchthon were so moved, like prophets of the OT? __________________ "The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth." -- Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).

#356     Today, 8:29 am

kycqster Observing Member   Join Date: July 5, 2007 Posts: 4 Religion: Catholic

Re: Ask a Pentecostal I apologize in advance if this has already been asked - I didn't read ALL of the pages of questions..... I trust that you place supreme importance on sacred scripture - the Bible - but how do you know that the books in the Bible are actually inspired by the Holy Spirit, and that there aren't other books floating around that may be inspired but aren't included in the Bible? At some level I believe that all non-Catholic Christians should read every book that was considered for inclusion in the Bible and decide for themselves which are inspired and which aren't. Of course, many would come to different conclusions about the books, just like holy-spirit inspired sola scriptura Christians can come to completely different conclusions about the necessity of baptism. At the heart of my question is how a non-Catholic "Bible believing" Christian can use a book compiled by Councils of the Catholic Church without acknowledging, at some level, that the Church had the Authority to deem the books of the New Testament "inspired", and if that's the case, when did the Church lose that authority? Thanks for being here and being so open in your responses!

#357     Today, 3:28 pm

ltwin Regular Member   Join Date: November 9, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,670 Religion: Pentecostal

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by kycqster I apologize in advance if this has already been asked - I didn't read ALL of the pages of questions..... Posts 173 and 178, both on page 12, touch somewhat on the issue of how Pentecostals view the canon. Quote: Originally Posted by kycqster I trust that you place supreme importance on sacred scripture - the Bible - but how do you know that the books in the Bible are actually inspired by the Holy Spirit, We know by church consensus. Through a drawn out process that lasted centuries, the church came to the conclusion that certain books were inspired and certain books were not. There was no decree. It was by consensus. Factors the church used to discern the authority of different books include apostolicity, universality, church use, survivability, age, authorship, and authenticity. The church did not decide which books should be in the biblical canon, but simply acknowledged those already recognized by God's people. The church was not the authority, but saw the authority in the inspired Word. Quote: Originally Posted by kycqster and that there aren't other books floating around that may be inspired but aren't included in the Bible? Do you have any candidates in mind? Perhaps the Book of Mormon? Well, we know that isn't authentic at all. Any new book or revelation will not be accepted because quite plainly it would lack authority, authenticity, and universality. Not to mention the other factors. Quote: Originally Posted by kycqster At some level I believe that all non-Catholic Christians should read every book that was considered for inclusion in the Bible and decide for themselves which are inspired and which aren't. Of course, many would come to different conclusions about the books, just like holy-spirit inspired sola scriptura Christians can come to completely different conclusions about the necessity of baptism. Canonization was not an individual process. It was a process of consensus. Quote: Originally Posted by kycqster At the heart of my question is how a non-Catholic "Bible believing" Christian can use a book compiled by Councils of the Catholic Church without acknowledging, at some level, that the Church had the Authority to deem the books of the New Testament "inspired", and if that's the case, when did the Church lose that authority? The church can't lose authority it never possessed. The church didn't exercise authority so much as they exercised discernment. This was a long process that involved all of God's people, not just church councils. __________________ Let your love be my companion In the war against my pride. Long to break all vain obsession Till you're all that I desire.

#358     Today, 4:22 pm

benjohnson Regular Member   Join Date: May 16, 2012 Location: Seattle (Where we need the Gospel) Posts: 1,381 Religion: Lutheran - LC-MS

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by guanophore Did I understand that Lutherans are cessationinsts when it comes to the charismatic gifts? We're almost cessationists - we're not fully closed as that would deny God's Grace. This is be best quote I can find for our position: "The church, therefore, will not reject out of hand the possibility that God may in His grace and wisdom endow some in Christendom with the same abilities and powers He gave His church in past centuries. It will take care lest it quench the Spirit by failing to expect or pray for God’s presence and power in building His church. But it will also take seriously the admonition of the apostle to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1; cf. also 1 Cor. 12:10). Above all, the church will not employ such gifts as though they were means of grace.3" Quote: I just finished a study on the life and work of Dietrich Bonhoeffer with great joy. What a gutsy guy! I hope I am never called to make such choices, but if I am, that I will make them with the same courage. He's an inspiration to me when I'm feeling rather helpless. Quote: Does Lutheran theology allow that God can give an individual a powerful revelation that is meant to be shared with the Church? Yes... but they'll be tested very very thoroughly. My expectation is to never see such a revelation in my lifetime. We take joy in the revelation of others as a admonition of faith, but not of grace. When I see a Catholic shrine - it's the faith-filled people there that bring me joy. I would never 'counter' their claims, but I also don't really have a need to accept their claims as we have sufficient Scripture. Quote: Do you consider that such figures as Luther and Melanchthon were so moved, like prophets of the OT? Ack! No! Luther and Melanchthon were just two sinners. They're lives are of historical importance and nothing more.

#359     Today, 5:47 pm

bhead Trial Membership   Join Date: May 21, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: catholic

Re: Ask a Pentecostal Quote: Originally Posted by lance4648 Wow, I have just finished reading all 24 pages of posts and comments and I must say that I'm impressed with how cordial and knowledgeable the posts have been. I was born and raised in the Assemblies of God and I have recently started reading Catholic Answers to learn more about the Catholic church. The more I read the more I realize that we have so much in common and I'm glad to call all of you my Christian brothers and sisters. I have to admit that before I got on this forum I had many misconceptions about Catholics and for that I'm truly sorry. I hope to have an opportunity to chat with many of you guys and learn much more about the faith from your own personal experiences. All the best, Lance all or most christian churches are an off shoot of roman catholic, virtually all share the same doctrines -- http://youtu.be/n-otIupwP4E Ever find yourself asking "where is the POWER of God in my life"? this is what most churches ask them self--